Legislature(1993 - 1994)
04/01/1993 03:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
April 1, 1993
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SB 53: "An Act annulling changes made by certain
regulations adopted by the Department of Health
and Social Services relating to funding of
abortion services under the general relief medical
program; and providing for an effective date."
PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS, NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION GIVEN
HB 210: "An Act relating to employment of chief school
administrators."
POSTPONED TO TIME CERTAIN
HB 85: "An Act relating to the public school foundation
program; and providing for an effective date."
POSTPONED TO TIME CERTAIN
HB 195: "An Act authorizing youth courts by which to
provide for peer adjudication of minors who have
allegedly committed violations of state or
municipal laws, renaming the community legal
assistance grant fund and amending the purposes
for which grants may be made from that fund in
order to provide financial assistance for
organizations and initial operation of youth
courts, and relating to young adult advisory
panels in the superior court."
POSTPONED TO TIME CERTAIN
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
DEBBI LAWE
P.O. Box 1019
Ward Cove, Alaska 99928
Phone: (907) 225-3515
Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53
KATHY HINSON
P.O. Box 9060
Ward Cove, Alaska 99928
Phone: (907) 225-9133
Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53
MARSHA GEORGE
1926 Cub Court
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-2490
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
KAREN DANGERFIELD
P.O. Box 3013
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-7434
Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53
BILL FREER
748 Millar Ridge
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-5071
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
ELINORE JACOBSEN
2125 Second Ave.
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-3395
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
FRAN YOUNG
537 Tower Road
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-3528
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
PENNI POET
P.O. Box 992
Ward Cove, Alaska 99928
Phone: (907) 247-8321
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
JANICE DAREFF
963-A Forest Park
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-4333
Position statement: Testified in support of SB 53
DONALD POET
P.O. Box 992
Ward Cove, Alaska 99928
Phone: (907) 247-8321
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
MARCIA HILLEY
P.O. Box 7483
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-5775
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
TERESA CREVIER
1123 Black Bear Road
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-6588
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
JOE WILLIAMS
P.O. Box 6754
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-4314
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
CANDI AUSTIN
8339 Snug Harbor Lane
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: (907) 225-6842
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
CHRISTINA KAY SMITH
2865 Mendenhall Loop Road
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 789-9324 work
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
SID HEIDERSDORF
Alaskans for Life
P.O. Box 020658
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
ROBIN STEVENS
P.O. Box 22070
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 463-5131 work
Phone: (907) 586-1565 home
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
KATHY POLK
P.O. Box 020196
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Phone: (907) 463-4846
Position statement: Testified in opposition to SB 53
ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to the Commissioner
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110601
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601
Phone: (907) 465-3030
MICHAEL MCGEE, Chief
Permanent Fund Division Operations
Department of Revenue
P.O. Box 110460
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: (907) 465-2622
Position statement: Opposed PFD check-off program amendment
JACK PHELPS, Aide
Rep. Pete Kott
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 409
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: (907) 465-3777
Position statement: Testified on SB 53
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SB 53
SHORT TITLE: ANNULLING ABORTION FUNDING REGULATIONS
BILL VERSION: CSSB 53(FIN) AM(EFD FLD)
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES
TITLE: "An Act relating to payment for abortions under
Medicaid and general relief medical assistance; annulling
changes made by certain regulations adopted by the
Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding
of abortion services under the general relief medical
program."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 122 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 122 (S) HES, JUD, FINANCE
01/27/93 (S) HES AT 01:30 PM BUTROVICH
ROOM 205
01/27/93 (S) MINUTE(HES)
01/29/93 187 (S) HES RPT 4DP 1NR 1DNP
01/29/93 187 (S) FISCAL NOTES PUBLISHED (DHSS-5)
02/10/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
02/10/93 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
02/24/93 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211
02/24/93 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
02/25/93 481 (S) JUD RPT 1DP 2DP W/AM 2DNP
02/25/93 481 (S) PREVIOUS FNS (DHSS-5)
02/25/93 487 (S) FIN WAIVED PUBLIC HEARING
NOTICE,RULE 23
02/26/93 499 (S) FIN RPT CS 4DP 2DNP
NEW TITLE
02/26/93 499 (S) PREVIOUS FNS APPLY TO CS
(DHSS-5)
02/26/93 (S) FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FIN 518
02/26/93 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
02/26/93 (S) RLS AT 01:15 PM FAHRENKAMP
ROOM 203
02/26/93 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
03/02/93 575 (S) MOTION TO CALENDAR 3/3/93 FLD
Y8 N11 E1
03/03/93 589 (S) RULES RPT 2/CALENDAR 1/OTHER
REC 3/3/93
03/03/93 590 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
03/03/93 591 (S) FIN CS ADOPTED Y13 N5 E1 A1
03/03/93 592 (S) AM NO 1 ADOPTED Y11 N8 E1
03/03/93 592 (S) ADVANCE TO 3RD RDG FAILED
Y13 N6 E1
03/03/93 592 (S) THIRD READING 3/5 CALENDAR
03/05/93 634 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME CSSB
53(FIN) AM
03/05/93 635 (S) PASSED Y12 N6 E2
03/05/93 635 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y12
N6 E2
03/05/93 635 (S) Duncan NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
03/08/93 658 (S) RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD
READING
03/08/93 659 (S) PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR
UNAN CONS
03/08/93 672 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y13
N6 E1
03/08/93 672 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y13 N6 E1
03/08/93 677 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
03/10/93 582 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/10/93 582 (H) L&C, HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/23/93 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/25/93 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124
03/25/93 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/26/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/26/93 791 (H) L&C RPT 3DP 2DNP 2NR
03/26/93 791 (H) DP: WILLIAMS, PORTER, SITTON
03/26/93 791 (H) DNP: GREEN, MULDER
03/26/93 791 (H) NR: HUDSON, MACKIE
03/26/93 791 (H) -5 PREVIOUS SENATE FNS(DHS)
1/29/93
04/01/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 210
SHORT TITLE: HIRING OF CHIEF SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Kott
TITLE: "An Act relating to employment of chief school
administrators."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/10/93 590 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/10/93 590 (H) HES, FINANCE
03/12/93 629 (H) COSPONSOR(S): KOTT
03/22/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/22/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/22/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/01/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 85
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC SCHOOL FOUNDATION PROGRAM
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act relating to the public school foundation
program; and providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 138 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 138 (H) HES, FINANCE
01/22/93 138 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (DOE) 1/22/93
01/22/93 138 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/18/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/18/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
02/23/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/23/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/22/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/25/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/25/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/01/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 195
SHORT TITLE: AUTHORIZING YOUTH COURTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) SITTON,Ulmer,Willis,Foster,
Brown,B.Davis,Olberg,Porter
TITLE: "An Act authorizing youth courts by which to provide
for peer adjudication of minors who have allegedly committed
violations of state or municipal laws, renaming the
community legal assistance grant fund and amending the
purposes for which grants may be made from that fund in
order to provide financial assistance for organization and
initial operation of youth courts, and relating to young
adult advisory panels in the superior court."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/03/93 519 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/03/93 519 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/12/93 628 (H) COSPONSOR(S): WILLIS, FOSTER,
BROWN
03/12/93 628 (H) COSPONSOR(S): B.DAVIS, OLBERG
03/19/93 716 (H) COSPONSOR(S): PORTER
03/24/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/31/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/01/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-55, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:39 p.m. and
noted members present. He announced that HB 85, HB 210 and
HB 195 would be postponed until April 2, 1993.
CHAIR BUNDE announced that the committee would be taking
public testimony via teleconference from Ketchikan because
technical problems had blocked testimony at the previous
hearing on SB 53. He brought SB 53 to the table.
SB 53: ANNULLING ABORTION REGULATIONS
Number 048
DEBBI LAWE testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
support of SB 53. Her written testimony is on file in the
committee room. In summary, she said that abortion was
legal, and that the issue was whether abortion would be
limited to wealthy women, and that abortion was a personal,
not political decision.
Number 085
KATHY HINSON, A MEDICAL LABORATORY TECHNOLOGIST, testified
via teleconference from Ketchikan in support of SB 53,
saying preventing unwanted pregnancies was in the best
interest of the state and its taxpayers.
Number 099
MARSHA GEORGE testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to SB 53. She said talk of discrimination
against poor women was "hogwash." She said she had three
abortions as a poor, working, single teenager. She said
that as manager of a low-income housing development in
Ketchikan, she sees many women on welfare who enjoy many
amenities of life and who could likely afford to pay for
abortions if necessary. She called abortion elective
surgery and questioned whether the government should pay for
any other kinds of elective surgery.
Number 141
KAREN DANGERFIELD testified via teleconference from
Ketchikan in support of SB 53. She said polls show most
Americans and Alaskans were pro-choice, which should
persuade legislators to support SB 53. She also said state
funding of abortions would save the state from paying for a
lifetime of support for unwanted children.
Number 158
BILL FREER testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to SB 53, saying that a fetus was alive before
and after birth, and if state laws barred killing a child
after birth, they should not pay to kill it before birth.
He said it was ironic that the state was cutting benefits
for older Alaskans.
Number 181
ELINORE JACOBSEN testified via teleconference from Ketchikan
in support of SB 53, saying the state had historically
provided support for abortions through Medicaid, and that
all residents must support some government programs with
which they disagreed. She said abortions should not be
separated from other medical procedures and denied to poor
women. She said the state spent on abortion was one-fourth
of that spent on medical and welfare costs for unintended
pregnancies. She mentioned the Religious Coalition for
Abortion Rights, a non-partisan assembly of 35 groups
supporting reproductive freedom as a basic part of religious
liberty.
Number 220
FRAN YOUNG testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to SB 53, saying she endorsed the governor's
efforts to restrict state abortion funding. She encouraged
people to pay for abortions themselves, or to give their
babies up for adoption, or to control their own sexual
activities.
Number 230
PENNI POET testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to SB 53, saying the government has to protect
all live babies, whether living in or out of the womb. She
said abortion discriminated against those residents not old
enough to live outside the womb. She said the state's
civilization would be judged on how it treated its smallest,
most helpless members.
Number 254
JANICE DAREFF testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
support of SB 53, saying women have the right to determine
their own health care and reproductive lives, and that poor
women and wealthy women should have the same rights. She
said that if women lacked reproductive rights, the question
of any other rights was moot. She said current state
regulations discriminated against women's reproductive
rights.
Number 268
DONALD POET testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to SB 53, saying he opposed use of public funds
to take innocent human life.
Number 274
MARCIA HILLEY testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to SB 53, saying that while abortion was legal,
she believed it was murder and she did not want her money
used for murder. She asked if the state should pay for
fertility treatment as well as abortion, and asked
rhetorically where a government's responsibility to support
women's rights to choose ended. She observed she had never
been polled on abortion.
Number 291
TERESA CREVIER testified via teleconference from Ketchikan
in opposition to SB 53. She said she supported all of the
amendments to SB 53 proposed by Rep. Kott, and that she
would support the bill only if all those amendments were
adopted.
Number 308
JOE WILLIAMS testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to SB 53. He said that, in light of budget
cutbacks, he did now want the government to spend money on
abortion. He added that women could exercise their right to
choose by choosing not to become pregnant.
Number 335
CANDI AUSTIN testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in
opposition to SB 53.
Number 340
CHAIR BUNDE announced an end to the teleconference with
Ketchikan, and called upon those in Juneau who wished to
testify.
Number 348
CHRISTINA KAY SMITH testified in Juneau in opposition to
SB 53. She said abortion takes away a father's rights. She
said her daughter had an abortion without telling her
boyfriend. She said a father's concerns should be addressed
in childbearing decisions. He encouraged legislators to
vote against abortion in any form. She recalled when the
father of her daughter offered to pay to abort the girl, and
said she then assumed responsibility for the child. She
said she was half Tlingit and it would not take long for her
people to die off.
(Rep. Nicholia arrived at 4:03 p.m.)
Number 379
SID HEIDERSDORF, ALASKANS FOR LIFE, testified in Juneau in
opposition to SB 53. He said the state's laws should
protect not take human life, and that most people knew that
abortion was wrong as promoting chaos in language, law and
values. He said women do bear a responsibility to their
babies, and said babies afflicted with cocaine addiction or
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome paid the price of their mothers'
actions. He said laws against child abuse protect
childrens' rights, but said that abortion rights say the
state did not care about babies' rights. He said abortion
could not be reconciled with other social values. He stated
"therapeutic" abortion was broadly defined, and that the
regulations would allow all but purely elective abortions.
ROBIN STEVENS testified in Juneau in opposition to SB 53,
saying that he and his 46-year-old wife were parents of a
21-month-old baby. He said he opposed state funding of
abortions, and encouraged the legislators to use the money
instead for research on alcohol.
Number 454
KATHY POLK testified in Juneau, remarking that while she had
observed many hearings on SB 53 and had heard few people
testify in support of it, she was surprised to see the bill
continue to pass committees. She said she was a Christian
and a minority, and that everyone was a minority in some
way. She said she believed that SB 53 would be killed in
Jesus' name. She said only God could take a life. She said
she and other Christians had been praying about the bill,
that they were taking authority over it in Jesus' name, and
that the bill would die.
Number 488
CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony on SB 53 and called for
discussion by the committee.
REP. BRICE, hearing no discussion, MOVED passage of SB 53
with individual recommendations.
Number 494
REP. KOTT objected for the purpose of introducing
amendments.
CHAIR BUNDE noted the objection, and asked Rep. Kott to
speak to his amendment.
Number 510
REP. KOTT replaced his original amendment 1, distributed at
an earlier meeting, with a different amendment. The new
amendment 1 returned CSSB 53(FIN) am(efd fld) to the same
form as the original SB 53 before it was amended in the
Senate.
Number 551
ELMER LINDSTROM, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE COMMISSIONER,
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, said he understood
that the amendment would nullify all amendments made to
SB 53 by the Senate. It would therefore have the effect of
annulling the regulations recently adopted by the Department
of Health and Social Services. However, it would not
preclude the department from re-promulgating those
regulations and would not effect a permanent law. He said
the department opposed SB 53, both in its original and
amended versions.
Number 570
CHAIR BUNDE asked Rep. Kott about the effective date of the
bill.
Number 575
REP. KOTT said the new amendment would change the effective
date to 90 days after the governor signed the bill. He
noted that the CSSB 53(FIN) am(efd fld) had no effective
date, and therefore would take effect 90 days after the
governor signed it.
CHAIR BUNDE asked whether Rep. Kott wanted to add an
effective date.
REP. KOTT said no.
CHAIR BUNDE asked a clarifying question regarding the
effective date.
Number 534
REP. KOTT said his amendment to delete section 5 contained a
retroactive date of February 19, 1993. The intent of the
amendment was to conform the House version of the bill to
the failure of the Senate to enact the retroactive effective
date.
CHAIR BUNDE thanked Rep. Kott for the explanation.
REP. BRICE called the question.
Number 546
CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Lindstrom whether he understood Rep.
Kott's amendment 1 to have the effect of changing CSSB
53(FIN) am(efd fld) back to the original form of SB 53 as
introduced to the Senate.
Number 555
MR. LINDSTROM said that this would be his reading of the
language, but he did not have a copy of the original SB 53.
(A committee aide distributed copies of the original SB 53).
Mr. Lindstrom then said he would need to consult with the
Department of Law. He said that while the intent statement
was the same in the original and amended bills, he was not
sure whether section 2 as amended would have the effect of
annulling the abortion regulations in question. However,
Mr. Lindstrom then corrected himself, saying that section 2
of the original SB 53 and section 2 in the bill after Rep.
Kott's amendment 1 would have the same effect.
CHAIR BUNDE noted that the question had been called, and
asked for a roll call vote. Those voting yes: Reps. Kott,
Bunde, G. Davis and Vezey. Those voting no were: Reps.
Olberg, B. Davis, Nicholia, Brice and Toohey. The motion
FAILED 4-5.
REP. TOOHEY MOVED passage of CSSB 53(FIN) am(efd fld) with
individual recommendations.
CHAIR BUNDE noted that the motion had already been made, and
that Rep. Kott had objected for the purpose of making an
amendment. He asked if there was further discussion of the
motion.
REP. KOTT OBJECTED for purpose of making an amendment. He
noted that he had provided committee members with five
amendments. He withdrew his amendment 2, and proceeded to
amendment 3.
Number 581
REP. KOTT said his amendment 3 allowed those receiving
permanent fund dividends to check off a box on their
applications to direct a portion of their money to pay for
state-funded abortions. He MOVED the amendment.
REP. BRICE OBJECTED to the motion. He said that, as a
legislative worker in the previous year, he had worked with
the Department of Revenue's Permanent Fund Division and
believed that the division adamantly opposed any type of
check-off for any reason.
CHAIR BUNDE invited a representative from the Department of
Revenue to testify.
TAPE 93-55, SIDE B
Number 000
MICHAEL MCGEE, CHIEF OF OPERATIONS FOR THE PERMANENT FUND
DIVISION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, said the department
did oppose any check-off to the permanent fund program, as
both houses of the state legislature had opposed them for
years, since it would open a floodgate of requests for such
check-offs. He recalled one proposal to allow check-offs to
non-profit organizations and noted that there were 4,500
such organizations in the state.
CHAIR BUNDE asked whether there would have to be a fiscal
note to cover the administrative costs of such a check-off
program.
MR. MCGEE answered yes.
Number 024
REP. KOTT said that there had been a check-off allowed on
PFD applications at least once before.
MR. MCGEE answered yes, that there had been a check-off
allowed for the effort to attract the Olympic games to
Anchorage.
Number 030
REP. KOTT asked the fiscal impact of the check-off.
MR. MCGEE answered that had did not recall, but such a
check-off would require an on-going expense.
Number 035
CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion and, hearing none,
called for a roll call vote on Rep. Kott's amendment 3.
Those voting yes were: Reps. Vezey and Kott. Those voting
no were: Reps. Olberg, B. Davis, Nicholia, Brice, Toohey,
Bunde and G. Davis. The motion FAILED 2-7.
Number 058
REP. KOTT introduced amendment 4, which he said would direct
physicians, before performing an abortion upon a woman, to
inform her of certain information concerning the abortion,
including details of the procedure, its risks, and
alternatives to abortion. He said the amendment intended to
protect the state from lawsuits.
REP. BRICE OBJECTED.
REP. TOOHEY asked if Rep. Kott's amendment was similar to a
bill he had previously introduced (HB 154).
REP. KOTT answered yes.
Number 073
REP. BRICE raised a point of order, saying that the
amendment exceeded the title of the bill and therefore was
inappropriate.
Number 075
REP. KOTT asked his aide to speak to the objection.
Number 081
MR. PHELPS said the first part of amendment 4 was not
identical to HB 154, as the amendment dealt only with state
funded abortions. He said the title of the bill was broad
enough to allow for the changes, because it related to
payment for abortions by requiring that women receiving
abortions paid for by the state should be fully informed.
Number 102
CHAIR BUNDE respectfully disagreed with Mr. Phelps. He said
a woman's right to know was not part of the regulations
being annulled, as referred to in the title of the bill,
"An Act annulling changes made by certain regulations..."
He said that since the changes did not exist, they could not
be annulled.
Number 110
MR. PHELPS said Chair Bunde might be correct. He added that
if the committee wanted to adopt the amendment, it would be
easy to change the title.
CHAIR BUNDE said he still had problems with the bill's
title, but said he would allow the vote.
Number 124
REP. KOTT asked Chair Bunde to move the amendment on to
Judiciary, which he said might be a more proper forum to
decide whether a title change was required.
Number 130
CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote on Rep. Kott's
amendment 4. Those voting yes were: Reps. G. Davis and
Kott. Those voting no were: Reps. B. Davis, Nicholia,
Brice, Toohey, Bunde and Olberg. The motion FAILED 2-6.
Number 139
REP. KOTT presented his amendment 5, saying it would have
the effect of allowing state funding for therapeutic
abortions alone, and not elective abortions. He said the
amendment reflected public outcry against public funding of
abortion as a method of birth control.
Number 150
CHAIR BUNDE commented that Rep. Kott's definition of the
word "therapeutic" would be narrower than would be reflected
in the testimony heard by the committee that day.
REP. KOTT commented, "Perhaps."
Number 151
REP. BRICE OBJECTED to the amendment.
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no discussion, called for a roll call
vote on the amendment. Those voting yes were: Reps. G.
Davis, Vezey and Kott. Those voting no were: Reps.
Nicholia, Brice, Toohey, Bunde, Olberg and B. Davis. The
motion FAILED 3-6.
Number 169
REP. KOTT withdrew amendment 6 and submitted amendment 7,
his final proposed amendment. He said amendment 7 was a
technical change to help ensure that using the term
procedure did not preclude non-surgical abortions, so that
women would have a full range of choices in abortion
services. He said the word "treatment" should be added as a
broader term that would include any new technological
innovations, such as the abortifacient RU-486.
CHAIR BUNDE said some people might call RU-486 a procedure.
There followed discussion among committee members about what
constituted abortion "treatments" and abortion "procedures."
Number 200
REP. G. DAVIS CALLED THE QUESTION.
CHAIR BUNDE asked if Rep. Kott favored RU-486.
REP. KOTT said he was not saying he favored it, but that if
it was used, the state would not be required to pay for it
without his amendment.
CHAIR BUNDE asked whether Rep. Kott's intent was to allow
the state to pay for RU-486 treatment.
REP. KOTT said yes, if RU-486 became available.
Number 217
CHAIR BUNDE invited Rep. Toohey, as a nurse, to
differentiate between "treatment" and "procedure."
REP. TOOHEY said she believed the terms were
interchangeable, but it would be appropriate to consult the
dictionary.
There followed further discussion among committee members
about what constituted "treatments" and "procedures."
Number 234
CHAIR BUNDE read definitions of the terms in question from
the dictionary.
Number 241
REP. KOTT said he wanted to make sure the language in the
bill was consistent, noting that section 3, line 24,
included the terms "treatments" and "procedures."
CHAIR BUNDE noted the difference in language, saying that
lines 5-6 discuss a particular procedure, whereas lines 23-
24 speak of the abortion procedure as it related to other
procedures and treatments which might be performed in
addition to the abortion. He said he did not know if it was
necessary, for continuity's sake, to have both terms.
Number 272
MR. PHELPS said it was obvious that Rep. Kott opposed SB 53,
but he would prefer to have it in as proper a form as
possible if it were going to pass. He said he and Rep.
Kott, in researching HB 154, had discovered potential
differences in how the terms were used, and therefore were
trying to apply that experience toward a friendly amendment
to a bill they both opposed.
REP. BRICE CALLED THE QUESTION.
CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote on the amendment.
Those voting yes were: Reps. Vezey and Kott. Those voting
no were: Reps. Brice, Toohey, Bunde, G. Davis, Olberg, B.
Davis and Nicholia. The motion FAILED 2-7.
Number 296
CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no further discussion on the main
motion to pass CSSB 53(FIN) am(efd fld) out of committee,
called for a roll call vote.
REP. KOTT OBJECTED for purposes of discussion. He said in
recent weeks members of the House had made hard choices to
cut the budget. The House had voted to cut welfare
benefits, Longevity Bonus payments, and property tax
exemptions to senior citizen homeowners, and were
considering cutting such benefits to renters and disabled
veterans. He said that the move to cut state abortion
funding must be looked at as another cost-cutting measure.
He said the state would save money by paying for fewer than
the 2,600 abortions performed in 1992. He said if the
legislature was going to demonstrate consistency, it would
have to cut the number of abortions.
CHAIR BUNDE called for a vote on the main motion. Those
voting yes were: Reps. Toohey, Bunde, Olberg, B. Davis,
Nicholia and Brice. Those voting no were: Reps. G. Davis,
Vezey and Kott. The motion PASSED 6-3.
CHAIR BUNDE said, "And with that ...
Number 327
REP. KOTT stated, "Mr. Chairman, I'd like to serve notice of
reconsideration of my vote."
CHAIR BUNDE said, "Reconsideration is duly noted, and that
brings us to the end of business for today."
REP. B. DAVIS asked if Rep. Kott was serious about asking
for reconsideration.
REP. KOTT answered that he was.
REP. B. DAVIS said she had never heard of reconsideration at
the committee level.
Number 334
REP. KOTT asked the chair to call an at-ease so that he
could present a legal opinion on the issue of
reconsideration.
CHAIR BUNDE called a two-minute at-ease at 4:45 p.m., and
called the meeting back to order two minutes later.
Number 338
REP. VEZEY said the matter was still in the committee's
possession until the bill was transmitted to the House
Clerk.
Number 340
CHAIR BUNDE asked if it were not moot if the bill was
physically in the committee's possession, regardless of
whether the committee had adjourned. He said the bill could
not be reconsidered until the committee was back in session.
REP. OLBERG asked that the section of Mason's Manual could
be read into the record.
Number 330
LYNNE SMITH, HESS COMMITTEE AIDE, read Mason's Manual,
section 635, which stated: "The standing or special
committee has the right to reconsider any action taken by it
so long as the subject matter remains in the possession of
the committee. Reconsideration in a committee is generally
subject to the same rules as in the body. The principal
variations are that even when there is a time limit on the
motion to reconsider in the main body, a reconsideration can
be moved at any time while the matter still remains before
the committee, and that reconsideration may be moved by any
member even though he was absent when the vote was taken."
Number 353
REP. TOOHEY asked if the committee could vote on the
reconsideration at that time.
CHAIR BUNDE stated, "We can vote on the reconsideration when
the person who served notice of reconsideration ..."
REP. BRICE said anyone could bring up notice of
reconsideration.
REP. TOOHEY MOVED a vote on the reconsideration.
REP. BRICE seconded the motion.
Number 359
CHAIR BUNDE read from the legal opinion which Rep. Kott had
provided, which was written by Tam Cook, director of the
Division of Legal Services of the Legislative Affairs
Agency, dated March 30, 1993, (on file in the committee
room), which said that the Uniform Rules were silent on the
issue of reconsideration in committees, though committee
procedures were less formal than procedures in the full
house. He said that while the Uniform Rules did not address
the issue, he said that Mason's Rules, under which the
committee operated, did.
(Rep. B. Davis departed at 4:49 p.m.)
Number 374
CHAIR BUNDE read from Ms. Cook's letter, page two: "It
seems clear that a motion to reconsider can be made in
committee, and that the Uniform Rules apply to these motions
to the extend that they can be made applicable, except that
the time limit on making the motion does not apply."
Number 382
REP. TOOHEY noted that there was a motion on the floor.
CHAIR BUNDE read from Ms. Cook's letter, page two: "In
practice the right is closely restricted in time because the
motion cannot be made after the subject of the vote is out
of possession of the body. So if a vote deals with
reporting a bill from committee, notice of reconsideration
must be given at the meeting the vote is taken. Otherwise
the report may be read across and the matter will have left
the possession of the committee."
CHAIR BUNDE said, "You have the right for the motion of
reconsideration. The question now is when is it brought up
again, and who can do that."
Number 390
REP. TOOHEY reminded Chair Bunde of her motion to vote on
the motion for reconsideration.
Number 393
CHAIR BUNDE asked the committee aide to re-read the relevant
section of Mason's Manual.
Number 396
MS. SMITH read Mason's Manual, section 635: "The standing
or special committee has the right to reconsider any action
taken by it so long as the subject matter remains in the
possession of the committee. Reconsideration in a committee
is generally subject to the same rules as in the body. The
principal variations are that even when there is a time
limit on the motion to reconsider in the main body, a
reconsideration can be moved at any time while the matter
still remains before the committee, and that reconsideration
may be moved by any member even though he was absent when
the vote was taken."
CHAIR BUNDE stated, "See, the point is, you can move to
reconsider, but who can then bring that reconsideration back
up?"
VARIOUS COMMITTEE MEMBERS answered that any member could
move the reconsideration, even if absent.
Number 350
CHAIR BUNDE noted the motion to bring up for reconsideration
the vote on SB 53, and called for a roll call vote. Those
voting yes were: Reps. Olberg, Nicholia, Brice, Toohey and
Bunde. Those voting no were: Reps. Kott and Vezey.
CHAIR BUNDE said, "We have before us House (Senate) Bill
53."
REP. BRICE said, "I MOVE SB 53."
CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote. He then corrected
himself to say Senate Bill 53.
DAN SADDLER, COMMITTEE SECRETARY began calling the role,
beginning with Rep. Olberg, who responded yes.
MR. SADDLER then called for Rep. Nicholia's vote, who
responded yes.
Number 417
REP. KOTT stated, "Point of order. The two-thirds of the
whole body is six. We failed to acquire that."
CHAIR BUNDE said, "We will need six votes to pass this out
of this committee."
REP. BRICE asked, "Or do you need three to stop it?"
In general discussion among committee members, it was not
clear whether a two-thirds vote of the whole committee, or
two-thirds of the members present, was necessary.
CHAIR BUNDE said, "We will stand at ease for five minutes."
He immediately reconvened the meeting and ADJOURNED the
meeting at 4:45 p.m.
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